Gorbachev: Why U.S., Russia Grew Apart

In 1985, Mikhail Gorbachev, then the newly chosen general-secretary of the Soviet Communist Party, signaled the beginning of the end of the Cold War when he reached out to the U.S. and began a series of arms-limitation talks with his hawkish counterpart, Ronald Reagan. Within six years, the Soviet Union was dead and agreements were in place to reduce Russian and American nukes. This week's deal between U.S. President Barack Obama and Russian—President Dmitry Medvedev to further reduce warheads is the first such deal in a decade and a half. During that time, Russian-American relations have also deteriorated drastically—along with Russian democracy itself, Gorbachev's other legacy to his country. Gorbachev spoke to NEWSWEEK Moscow Bureau Chief Owen Matthews last week about why relations have gotten so bad, and what both sides can do to restore lost trust. Excerpts:

Why have U.S.-Russian relations deteriorated so much since you were in power?

You can't explain U.S.-Russian relations today without understanding what happened after the end of the Cold War. The fall of the Soviet Union made America's head spin. I said at the time that the U.S. needed its own perestroika too—to demilitarize the economy, for instance. But after the Soviet Union ceased to be, many on the U.S. side said that this was a victory for the old system—so why should we change anything? All the new ideas for a new international order based on consensus were abandoned. In the U.S., some began to believe that America had to create new empire—that it was somehow America's destiny, and even God himself was pushing this role. This was an error. It meant believing that China, Russia, India, the whole of the rest of the world meant nothing. The U.S. began dealing with Russia without the necessary respect; many old agreements such as the antiballistic-missile treaty were unilaterally abandoned and the U.S. didn't listen to the Russian point of view. Now that Russia has got up from its knees—thanks to our good luck with commodities prices—the Americans and Europeans don't like it. The basic lesson is that the policy of disrespecting and ignoring Russia's opinion—which began after the Cold War—has led us to where we are now. In this sense the U.S. side is guiltier than the Russian.

Does Russia still have imperial ambitions?

No, no, no, no, no. Russia is a self-sufficient country with an educated people, plenty of food, huge natural resources. It doesn't need an empire.

Do you believe that last summer's war with Georgia was due to a U.S. plan to spread its influence over the former Soviet Union?

Yes, I am absolutely sure that there was such a plan—and it is mistaken.

Does Obama share that plan?

Obama only just came to power, and now he has to arrive at a new policy.

Why is President Medvedev building Russia's alliances with former Soviet countries?

I don't think the idea of renewing the U.S.S.R. exists anywhere. But we are tied together with a 400-year history of cooperation. I favor the creation of a regional economic area which would include Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, and Kazakhstan; the others can join if it's to their advantage. But it you look at this with suspicion then of course something bad will come of it.

Isn't the idea of spheres of influence outdated?

If there were a new European security architecture we would have no problems—EVERYONE would be in the same security system. I remember we spoke of this [with the first President Bush] but we abandoned it. Clinton began to run with the idea that NATO could participate in conflicts all over the world. Well, sorry, I think they were going a bit far. I think it is very important to allow sovereign governments to take independent decisions regardless of whether they are good or bad at ruling.

Does the Kremlin overestimate Russia's power?

No, they know exactly that Russia is not equal to the U.S.S.R., and not to the U.S. either. We are in different weight categories.

Do you believe that Western criticism of Russian democracy is sincere or cynical?

It is just a way of finding a well-argued excuse for interfering in Russian affairs. At the same time, you are right to criticize. So now what do we do? We are changing the whole economic and political system. And, remember, [we] can't do that in two nights. We are only halfway down the democratic road, but we are going down it.

You are in many senses the father of Russian democracy. Are you saying there is more democratic choice now than in 1991?

I am the great-grandfather of Russian democracy! The electoral system certainly needs reform. We need real competition. I don't like what is happening to the party system.

Why don't Russians seem to like democracy?

People are afraid that things will get worse; they want to let well enough alone. But authorities mustn't kid themselves—PEOPLE are for democracy, polls say so. We are creating a democracy, but it needs [to be] not too biased toward the executive. I say to Americans: you want us to have democratic institutions at same level as yours, but you forget that you spent 200 years making your system, and you want us to do it in 200 days. Yes, Russians are more talented than Americans, but not that much more talented.

NEWSWEEK // 06.07.2009

By Owen Matthews